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* Avoid thread hi-jacking. Moderators will be looking for this and will more than likely split the topic if it gets too drastic, as well as take appropriate action where deemed necessary, to include deleting posts and/or enforcement action.
Please do not post the same question or post across multiple forums, or in the same thread. The best way to get the answers you are searching for is to post a clear single question in the appropriate forum and be patient, Replies will come. If you are in a hurry for a particular answer try using the search button or reading through replies to similar questions. It may just contain the information that you need. No need to post the same information again and again as this just clogs up threads/sub-forums.
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This activity slows down the estore and can cause problems with it crashing, errors with people's orders, and inventory errors, particularly during periods of high demand/traffic.
Anyone making such posts on the forum will be warned once, then have their forum privileges suspended at least temporarily for a second violation. Further violations can result in permanent suspension.

* There will be no posting of links to, or copying information from listings on outside auctions/commercial sites, i.e. -- Gunbroker, Ebay, Armslist, Craigslist, Reddit, gun trader sites, etc, that are still active/live. We will not provide a platform for members to promote said auctions as there is no viable way to determine whether they or someone they know has a stake in the auction. Posts with this information will be removed. Continual violations will result in suspension of forum privileges. You may link to closed/completed auctions in the sake of education and learning.

* Users who post fake information, i.e. - name, location, in their profile, or otherwise provide/post false information/data about themselves will be instantly banned. Users who register multiple usernames will also be removed.

* Your account may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Generally, the following enforcement policy will apply:

1st offense - warning
2nd offense - banned for one week to six month
3rd offense - banned for one year
4th offense - banned permanently
** Depending on the nature of the offense/rule violation, first offense can result in ANY of the above enforcement actions.



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ADDITIONAL RULES, TO INCLUDE MARKETPLACE/CLASSIFIED AD RULES:

1. Profile Requirements

To start a sale, buy or trade thread anywhere in the Marketplace, your Profile must contain:

A. Your FIRST and LAST name as well as your STATE of residence. Your profile privacy settings must be set to at least allow registered users the ability to view your profile info, i.e. - Not set to "Friends only."
B. You must "enable receive email and PM’s" in your Control panel if you intend to buy or sell.

Additionally, you must have a valid email address listed in your registration profile (which can only be viewed by moderators/admin in the vBulletin master page).

Users with obvious fake names, or using false names in their profile will be permanently removed from the forum without warning.
PLEASE NOTE: When a member has failed to put their full names and location in their profile, their ads will be deleted WITHOUT NOTICE. You are responsible enough to be involved in firearm activity, so you can be responsible enough to read and understand the forum rules. The posted rules ARE your notice as they are posted throughout the forum. Threads/ads will be restored once a member has updated their profile with first and last name, and state.


2. The Marketplace is intended SOLELY for the mutual benefit of forum members as a resource to support each other's collecting and/or shooting goals.
It is NOT intended for, and will NOT be used by members as a repeated, for-profit venture/operation. This includes:
A. Purchasing items from members on the forum, then posting them for sale at a markup/profit on other commercial sites, i.e. – eBay, Gunbroker, etc.
B. Reselling items at a considerable markup that were recently purchased from CMP.
Members found to have clearly abused this policy will lose the ability to post in and use the Marketplace, and potentially have their forum privileges suspended, temporarily or permanently.


3. You may only list personally owned items, and/or request/WTB items for yourself. “Selling (or buying) this for a friend/family member” ads, and 3rd-party sales/purchases are prohibited.
Additionally, NO posting or linking to listings on eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, Reddit, or other outside auction/commercial sites. We will not have the items placed here also. List your product here, try to sell it here, then take it to eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, auction-arms, etc.

4. There will be no “auction style” selling here…If you post an item for sale and it says anything like "I will take the highest offer" it will be removed.
We ask that you list your item on just one forum, so there is not confusion and/or issues with an item being sold on another forum when someone attempts to purchase it here. If you do list and sell on another forum, it is your responsibility to immediately update your ad on our forum…if you do not, your privilege to post in the Marketplace and even the forum itself may be suspended, at least temporarily.

NOTE REGARDING 1911 PISTOLS PURCHASED FROM CMP:
If you are considering selling a 1911/1911A1 you acquired directly from CMP, you MUST obtain approval from CMP1911ADMIN before listing it on the forum as purchasers of these weapons are not allowed to resell them as a condition of the purchase. You may reach him via PM or email: [email protected]


5. Vendors (or people selling large quantities of the same item as part of a commercial venture) must first contact a moderator or admin.


6. Omission of information is also known as fraud. It is wholly the responsibility of the person listing an item to describe it ACCURATELY and TRUTHFULLY.
Example: If you are selling a rifle stock that has a 9 inch crack in it you need to disclose that information to the buyer. Do not describe the item or tell the buyer that the stock has "light scratches" only.
If we determine that you defraud a member by failing to disclose facts about your items, your access to this section will be restricted and you may be permanently banned from the forum.


7. CLASSIFIED AD REQUIREMENTS
A. Briefly describe your item in the title, along with WTS, WTT or WTB.
B. We do not have any rules regarding notification of a purchase or trade in an ad...it can be accomplished via a post on the thread, a PM, an email, a phone call, a pigeon carrier, etc. However, if you set the terms of your sale, you must follow them! We do not require or enforce any conditions of purchase; however, if a member violates their own terms then they are subject to at least suspension from the Marketplace section. For example: If you say, "First 'I'll take it' gets it," and sell to someone via PM or email without updating your ad and someone posts they'll take it, that's on you. We will not be party to a dispute, but you WILL lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace as a minimum since you failed to follow your own conditions.
C. You must list a price, and make it easily visible, not just lost in the description. Ads without a price will be deleted. It is ok to list a price and OBO (or best offer); however, no auction-style listings
D. As noted in item #4, provide ALL and ACCURATE details. i.e color, size, caliber, year, make, model, condition, defects, etc
E. Post pictures, or at least the links to them. If you are unable to post pics, then make them available via e-mail.
F. List shipping, pick-up or delivery options for the buyer, as well as cost.
G. Be sure to mark your ad as "SOLD" once the items are sold.


8. Do not bump ads older than 90 days without moderator approval. Ads older than 90 days will be locked if they get bumped.


9. Do not bump an ad more than once within a 24-hour period. Ads bumped multiple times within 24 hours will be locked or deleted. Members who continually do this will have their ads locked or deleted, and will lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace.


10. Remove previous bump posts so as to keep the size of the threads to a minimum. Nobody wants to have to search through 4+ pages of "Bump" or "ttt" posts simply to find information on the item listed.
If not removed, mods will remove them and/or delete the thread if it gets out of hand.


11. If you commit to buy or sell, please contact the seller or buyer within 24 hours with a PM or email to make arrangements.


12. If an item is sold, please mark the thread as such. This will help eliminate the old threads coming back up, as well as help those looking for specific items.


13. For WTB items anywhere in the Marketplace:
- Only respond to a WTB ad if you possess the requested item or have specific knowledge of that item’s availability. For example, do not post, “Check eBay” or “Check Gunbroker.”
- Once you have found/purchased the item(s) desired, delete the thread so as to not waste other members' time and allow for other threads to have visibility.


14. Keep the classified threads clean of extraneous/fluff comments and questions, regardless of how innocent or praiseworthy. This prevents derailing the thread and generating wasteful, opinionated discussions, as well as surreptitious bumping of threads.
If you have a technical or knowledge question relating to a listed item, start a new thread or search and add to an existing thread.
If you want to thank or praise a seller or item, DON'T do it in the sale thread as it unnecessarily bumps a stale thread, and said comments will be deleted. Instead, do the person the courtesy of posting in the Buyer/Seller Feedback section here:


Basically, if you don't have a question DIRECTLY related to a sale/trade/purchase of a specific thread, don't post! And this particularly applies to stomping a member’s ad concerning their asking price as there is a tendency to post negative replies when someone lists an item for sale that others consider overpriced.
We will not tolerate members stomping another member's ad concerning their asking price.
This also includes posting low-ball offers. If you want to make an offer lower than the asking price, even if it states OBO, do it via PM or email.
If an item is sold and the listing member deleted the price (which is their prerogative) and you want to know what the price was, do NOT post in the thread…send the member a PM.

Those who continually stomp or hijack other member's ads will face temporary, and even permanent suspension of their forum privileges.


15. No duplicate or multiple threads in different sections for the same item. Pick one section, the most applicable, and post there. Additional duplicate threads will be deleted.


16. You may not use the signature block function to solicit purchases, trades and/or sales. That is why we have the Marketplace...post a thread with your specific WTB, WTS, WTT ad.
You may have up to two lines stating you are looking or searching for a particular rifle/weapon and serial number.
As with individual posts, signature blocks/lines are subject to the same forum rules and will be handled accordingly if they violate any forum rules, policies/procedures or take up too much room of a post.


OTHER TIPS/GUIDELINES
- Buyers and Sellers should verify each other’s identity before sending money and/or products. If possible, get each other’s phone number and have a quick conversation to confirm the transaction details.
- As a suggestion: sellers should consider using delivery confirmation to avoid conflicts from buyers; saying they never received the products.
- Buyers, get to know the seller a little before you blindly send cash. If something does not seem right; it probably isn't. If something seems too good to be true; it probably is. Contact a moderator or report a thread/post that appears to be a scam.
- Respect fellow members. This section is a great place to support/help out fellow members and occasionally make new friends. Please be respectful to your fellow members. Maybe try selling here to a member instead of eBay, maybe save them a buck or two. If you have any questions, problems or concerns feel free to contact a moderator or admin.
- We do not require members to keep ads, or keep a listing price in the thread. It is your ad, so you are free to delete it at your discretion, as well as remove the asking price if you so desire. If someone is curious about the price for what an item sold, contact the seller via PM…do NOT post in thread.
- Lastly, don't forget the <b>Buyer/Seller Feedback section</b>

Be sure to express a good or bad experience with your buyer or seller, and let others know what to expect. Also be sure to check there for a member if you are concerned BEFORE you buy.


MODERATION RULES/ENFORCEMENT
1. All spammers get banned instantly and permanently.
2. Inappropriate or out of hand threads shall be closed with or without reason posted for the closure or deleted at the discretion of the Mods/Admins.
3. If you cannot follow the rules set forth, your posts may be deleted, removed, or edited by the Moderators.
4. If you repeatedly do not follow the rules set forth, you will be banned from this section or from the CMP Forum for any length of time from 2 days to permanently, at the discretion of the Moderators.

NOTE: These rules can change at any time. Administrators and Moderators have the right to make any decision that fits the website and its users.


DISCLAIMER
The CMP, any of its staff and forum administrators/moderators assume NO liability or responsibility for Marketplace transactions. Members will use at their own risk, and CMP will not be responsible for any disputes or claims between members involving a transaction.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program forum is intended primarily to be a technically-oriented website for professional, courteous, and intellectual discussion of CMP matches, activities, firearms and related events. We are an online community founded by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts, of all ages and walks of life. Remember that we have youth CMP participants who view this site. Please enjoy your stay and with your help, we can make the CMP Forums safe for all.


The opinions and posts on this site do not necessarily reflect those of The Civilian Marksmanship Program.


If you have any questions, please contact a Moderator

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Building New Mann Rifle - Need Recommendations

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  • Building New Mann Rifle - Need Recommendations

    A few years ago I bought a Mann Accuracy Device barrel and collar, with vague thoughts of building it into a Mann rifle.

    I decided that the time is now. I recently purchased a M1903 action (sans barrel, stock, and a few other parts). I will mount the Mann barrel on the M1903A3 action, and find a stock for it.

    Questions:

    1. What headspace should I strive for? 7.62x51 NATO min or .308 Win GO? I have both.

    I will have to shim the barrel, that is a given. The Mann device, or at least the one this barrel is for, was first built for the NATO 7.62x51mm round. However, I plan to shoot .308 Winchester out of it as well.

    This post may mean that it is a moot point, but I'd like opinions:

    Originally posted by normannewguy View Post
    Ok here it is again.

    Saami 308Win:
    GO 1.630
    NO GO 1.634
    FIELD 1.638

    FN FAL:
    GO 1.6325 (FN & Brit/commonwealth) (Canadian is 1.6315)
    NOGO 1.638
    FIELD 1.640

    7.62NATO (M14 US MILSPEC):
    GO 1.6355
    NOGO 1.638
    FIELD 1.6445


    Chamber and cartridge drawings. 308 WIN and 7.62 NATO


    http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/f6...tml?sort=3&o=2

    http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/f6...tml?sort=3&o=3


    Both cartridges are the exact same dimesions . The only difference between the two is usally the weight of the brass, NATO weighs in at 175 grains to 188. SAMMI brass is about 155 to 165 grains.

    Looking at the go for SAMMI and NATO there is a .005 difference. This will not be a problem in using NATO ammo in a 308 chamber.

    The only time you run into a problem is overseas ammo companies who make ammo to NATO standards. They will let stuff go that headspaces at 1.633 to 1.635 which in a NATO chamber is fine but is .003 to .005 to large for a Win chamber. Most US ammo companies , Winchester being one, who make NATO ammo go to the minimum spec and hold it there, 1.628 and that allows it to be chambered in both.

    If you have a minimum chamber 1.630 you can run into feeding problems with some NATO spec ammo but normally only overseas stuff, like PPU.
    2. Recommendations on a stock, probably to alter.

    For my first Mann rifle I used a cut down M1903A3 scant stock. It had been previously cracked and repaired, so I didn't mind chopping it down.

    I have a NOS USGI C-Stock replacement purchased from the South Store a few years ago. I don't think I want to chop it up, but it is a possibility. I like the C-stock pattern.

    Another possibility would be to find a stock for a heavy barreled rifle that has some "meat" in the forearm, and hollow it out to fit the Mann barrel. That would also likely mean fitting the action to the stock. Suggestions for one to use that requires minimum action fitting would be appreciated.

    A last possibility would be to get a custom stock made. I think that is possible, though I don't know about costs. Suggestions/recommendations on where to look for one gratefully received.

    Thanks for the help!

    "Life is Good!"

  • #2
    I love that you posted this and the thread post by "normannewguy" which I had seen but couldn't find myself to re-post in my build thread. I recently wrestled all of these questions and have some thoughts. The 1903/1903a3 stock is cool but the lightening cuts in the barrel channel put me off of that. I went with the Turkish Mauser stock because it came off a German K98k that had been sporterized. And that Carpathian walnut is sweet. I have a VZ24/48 stock which would also. Since the USA perloined the mauser to make the 1903 the action dimensions as to the mounting screws and recoil lug is the same. I had to enlarge the magazine well to accomodate the 1903a3 stamped magazine/trigger guard, I had to relieve some wood in the trigger well of the stock and on top to bring the 1903 rear receiver tang down to position. All of this was easy to do.
    The 1.630 GO gage CMP sells closed in my Mann rifle with a slight bit of pressure before i started. I understand from Bob's research that the chamber is cut to the 7.62x51 NATO case dimension. Anything bigger fits poorly. As in you have to apply more than normal pressure to chamber a round.
    So far running a once fired NATO case thru a full length sizing die fits with no issues. I plan to hand load with a Small Base Die as an additional step for the Mann.
    Getting the collar off is easy. I had a guy take measurements off of it and make a one off custom spacer/shim. Putting it back on was easy too. Crush fit past GO gage and back off a bit to return to head space.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BubbaTheKid View Post
      I love that you posted this and the thread post by "normannewguy" which I had seen but couldn't find myself to re-post in my build thread. I recently wrestled all of these questions and have some thoughts. The 1903/1903a3 stock is cool but the lightening cuts in the barrel channel put me off of that. I went with the Turkish Mauser stock because it came off a German K98k that had been sporterized. And that Carpathian walnut is sweet. I have a VZ24/48 stock which would also. Since the USA perloined the mauser to make the 1903 the action dimensions as to the mounting screws and recoil lug is the same. I had to enlarge the magazine well to accomodate the 1903a3 stamped magazine/trigger guard, I had to relieve some wood in the trigger well of the stock and on top to bring the 1903 rear receiver tang down to position. All of this was easy to do.
      The 1.630 GO gage CMP sells closed in my Mann rifle with a slight bit of pressure before i started. I understand from Bob's research that the chamber is cut to the 7.62x51 NATO case dimension. Anything bigger fits poorly. As in you have to apply more than normal pressure to chamber a round.
      So far running a once fired NATO case thru a full length sizing die fits with no issues. I plan to hand load with a Small Base Die as an additional step for the Mann.
      Getting the collar off is easy. I had a guy take measurements off of it and make a one off custom spacer/shim. Putting it back on was easy too. Crush fit past GO gage and back off a bit to return to head space.
      Would yourguy be interested in making a couple more spacer/shims? Please email me.

      I broke down and am having a stock made by Richards Microfit Gunstocks. M1903A3 action cut, with a 1 1/4 inch barrel channel.

      Oh, well.

      Thanks!

      "Life is Good!"
      Last edited by steelap; 06-13-2014, 08:40 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll shoot the guy an email and ask.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BubbaTheKid View Post
          I'll shoot the guy an email and ask.
          Thank you!

          I've also ordered a stock with a M1903A3 action cut-out and a 1 1/4" barrel channel.

          There may be room to cut a space for the collar.

          Wish me luck!

          "Life is Good!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Steelap , can you find the old posts about the mann builds? Several were done here several years ago. A few were true works of art. I remember one guy owned a machine shop and made a fantastic rifle. Another is one that was reported stolen only to be relocated in the garage a year later. Good luck and keep us posted. I miss watching the builds and the different ideas that were used.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by checkmate19 View Post
              Steelap , can you find the old posts about the mann builds? Several were done here several years ago. A few were true works of art. I remember one guy owned a machine shop and made a fantastic rifle. Another is one that was reported stolen only to be relocated in the garage a year later. Good luck and keep us posted. I miss watching the builds and the different ideas that were used.
              Yes, I've read the old posts. There were some beautiful rifles built.

              When/if this one is finished I will have two - one on a M1903A3 cut off stock (fore end) and one with a custom stock (I hope).

              I have carefully saved the pieces from the first rifle (the collar, the stock, etc.) so I can return it to original configuration if I want to. The second one is built up from a purchased Mann barrel, which came only with the collar.

              Thanks for all the help and encouragement.

              I will post pictures when there is something to show.

              "Life is Good!"

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't have a '03 Mann but I do have a Rem, 5.56 Mann.

                I didn't want to mess with the Barrel/Action (figured those who put it together knew much more then me about accuracy) but tried to put it in a stock.

                I bought a stock to try to inlet it to fit the Mann.............Aint happening, there was just not enough material.

                So this is what I ended up with.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by checkmate19 View Post
                  Steelap , can you find the old posts about the mann builds? Several were done here several years ago. A few were true works of art. I remember one guy owned a machine shop and made a fantastic rifle. Another is one that was reported stolen only to be relocated in the garage a year later. Good luck and keep us posted. I miss watching the builds and the different ideas that were used.
                  Hello Checkmate.
                  Most of the old posts on MANN rifles were lost when the old forum crashed. I had copied a few of them and restored them on this forum but you will have to hunt for them. The one you mentioned that was thought to be stolen was mine. At the time it disappeared I had it ready to test fire. However, not long after I found it I suffered a series of medical setbacks. The last one was a stroke on December 26th 2015. I am now legally blind in both eyes but I will get back to the project and load some test rounds and have several friends who will do the test firing. When that happens I will post the results.

                  Regarding the head space: the MANN rifle was designed to have zero head space. That is what I am adhering to. It eliminates one variable in the accuracy equation. With a zero head space NATO and 308 brass should chamber as long as the brass is first full length sized with a small base die. Once done, the brass will have a long life because there is little stretching of the brass.

                  I am looking forward to seeing more interest shown on this forum but since all of the guns have been sold, the interest was waned. There ARE more MANN rifles out there but not from the CMP.

                  My best wishes to all who continue to pursue enhansing this fine rifle.
                  Last edited by VMFn542bob; 01-10-2016, 03:14 PM.
                  A veteran is someone who once signed a blank check payable to The United States of America in an amount up to and including their life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Team,
                    My build stalled for reasons beyond my control. Interestingly I brought it out to the bench this weekend and will resume construction. I hope to have something to show by fall. If not sooner. I'm at the glass bedding stage and want to fuss around with shims for the S&K no drill and tap scope mount.

                    Best,
                    -R

                    Comment

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