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Please do not post the same question or post across multiple forums, or in the same thread. The best way to get the answers you are searching for is to post a clear single question in the appropriate forum and be patient, Replies will come. If you are in a hurry for a particular answer try using the search button or reading through replies to similar questions. It may just contain the information that you need. No need to post the same information again and again as this just clogs up threads/sub-forums.
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* Do not post any info, posts or threads regarding the process of going to the estore and artificially placing a large number of items in your cart simply for the purpose of seeing what inventory remains of an item carried on the estore!
This activity slows down the estore and can cause problems with it crashing, errors with people's orders, and inventory errors, particularly during periods of high demand/traffic.
Anyone making such posts on the forum will be warned once, then have their forum privileges suspended at least temporarily for a second violation. Further violations can result in permanent suspension.

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* Users who post fake information, i.e. - name, location, in their profile, or otherwise provide/post false information/data about themselves will be instantly banned. Users who register multiple usernames will also be removed.

* Your account may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Generally, the following enforcement policy will apply:

1st offense - warning
2nd offense - banned for one week to six month
3rd offense - banned for one year
4th offense - banned permanently
** Depending on the nature of the offense/rule violation, first offense can result in ANY of the above enforcement actions.



1. Profile Requirements

To start a sale, buy or trade thread anywhere in the Marketplace, your Profile must contain:

A. Your FIRST and LAST name as well as your STATE of residence. Your profile privacy settings must be set to at least allow registered users the ability to view your profile info, i.e. - Not set to "Friends only."
B. You must "enable receive email and PM’s" in your Control panel if you intend to buy or sell.

Additionally, you must have a valid email address listed in your registration profile (which can only be viewed by moderators/admin in the vBulletin master page).

Users with obvious fake names, or using false names in their profile will be permanently removed from the forum without warning.
PLEASE NOTE: When a member has failed to put their full names and location in their profile, their ads will be deleted WITHOUT NOTICE. You are responsible enough to be involved in firearm activity, so you can be responsible enough to read and understand the forum rules. The posted rules ARE your notice as they are posted throughout the forum. Threads/ads will be restored once a member has updated their profile with first and last name, and state.

2. The Marketplace is intended SOLELY for the mutual benefit of forum members as a resource to support each other's collecting and/or shooting goals.
It is NOT intended for, and will NOT be used by members as a repeated, for-profit venture/operation. This includes:
A. Purchasing items from members on the forum, then posting them for sale at a markup/profit on other commercial sites, i.e. – eBay, Gunbroker, etc.
B. Reselling items at a considerable markup that were recently purchased from CMP.
Members found to have clearly abused this policy will lose the ability to post in and use the Marketplace, and potentially have their forum privileges suspended, temporarily or permanently.

3. You may only list personally owned items, and/or request/WTB items for yourself. “Selling (or buying) this for a friend/family member” ads, and 3rd-party sales/purchases are prohibited.
Additionally, NO posting or linking to listings on eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, Reddit, or other outside auction/commercial sites. We will not have the items placed here also. List your product here, try to sell it here, then take it to eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, auction-arms, etc.

4. There will be no “auction style” selling here…If you post an item for sale and it says anything like "I will take the highest offer" it will be removed.
We ask that you list your item on just one forum, so there is not confusion and/or issues with an item being sold on another forum when someone attempts to purchase it here. If you do list and sell on another forum, it is your responsibility to immediately update your ad on our forum…if you do not, your privilege to post in the Marketplace and even the forum itself may be suspended, at least temporarily.

If you are considering selling a 1911/1911A1 you acquired directly from CMP, you MUST obtain approval from CMP1911ADMIN before listing it on the forum as purchasers of these weapons are not allowed to resell them as a condition of the purchase. You may reach him via PM or email: [email protected]

5. Vendors (or people selling large quantities of the same item as part of a commercial venture) must first contact a moderator or admin.

6. Omission of information is also known as fraud. It is wholly the responsibility of the person listing an item to describe it ACCURATELY and TRUTHFULLY.
Example: If you are selling a rifle stock that has a 9 inch crack in it you need to disclose that information to the buyer. Do not describe the item or tell the buyer that the stock has "light scratches" only.
If we determine that you defraud a member by failing to disclose facts about your items, your access to this section will be restricted and you may be permanently banned from the forum.

A. Briefly describe your item in the title, along with WTS, WTT or WTB.
B. We do not have any rules regarding notification of a purchase or trade in an can be accomplished via a post on the thread, a PM, an email, a phone call, a pigeon carrier, etc. However, if you set the terms of your sale, you must follow them! We do not require or enforce any conditions of purchase; however, if a member violates their own terms then they are subject to at least suspension from the Marketplace section. For example: If you say, "First 'I'll take it' gets it," and sell to someone via PM or email without updating your ad and someone posts they'll take it, that's on you. We will not be party to a dispute, but you WILL lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace as a minimum since you failed to follow your own conditions.
C. You must list a price, and make it easily visible, not just lost in the description. Ads without a price will be deleted. It is ok to list a price and OBO (or best offer); however, no auction-style listings
D. As noted in item #4, provide ALL and ACCURATE details. i.e color, size, caliber, year, make, model, condition, defects, etc
E. Post pictures, or at least the links to them. If you are unable to post pics, then make them available via e-mail.
F. List shipping, pick-up or delivery options for the buyer, as well as cost.
G. Be sure to mark your ad as "SOLD" once the items are sold.

8. Do not bump ads older than 90 days without moderator approval. Ads older than 90 days will be locked if they get bumped.

9. Do not bump an ad more than once within a 24-hour period. Ads bumped multiple times within 24 hours will be locked or deleted. Members who continually do this will have their ads locked or deleted, and will lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace.

10. Remove previous bump posts so as to keep the size of the threads to a minimum. Nobody wants to have to search through 4+ pages of "Bump" or "ttt" posts simply to find information on the item listed.
If not removed, mods will remove them and/or delete the thread if it gets out of hand.

11. If you commit to buy or sell, please contact the seller or buyer within 24 hours with a PM or email to make arrangements.

12. If an item is sold, please mark the thread as such. This will help eliminate the old threads coming back up, as well as help those looking for specific items.

13. For WTB items anywhere in the Marketplace:
- Only respond to a WTB ad if you possess the requested item or have specific knowledge of that item’s availability. For example, do not post, “Check eBay” or “Check Gunbroker.”
- Once you have found/purchased the item(s) desired, delete the thread so as to not waste other members' time and allow for other threads to have visibility.

14. Keep the classified threads clean of extraneous/fluff comments and questions, regardless of how innocent or praiseworthy. This prevents derailing the thread and generating wasteful, opinionated discussions, as well as surreptitious bumping of threads.
If you have a technical or knowledge question relating to a listed item, start a new thread or search and add to an existing thread.
If you want to thank or praise a seller or item, DON'T do it in the sale thread as it unnecessarily bumps a stale thread, and said comments will be deleted. Instead, do the person the courtesy of posting in the Buyer/Seller Feedback section here:

Basically, if you don't have a question DIRECTLY related to a sale/trade/purchase of a specific thread, don't post! And this particularly applies to stomping a member’s ad concerning their asking price as there is a tendency to post negative replies when someone lists an item for sale that others consider overpriced.
We will not tolerate members stomping another member's ad concerning their asking price.
This also includes posting low-ball offers. If you want to make an offer lower than the asking price, even if it states OBO, do it via PM or email.
If an item is sold and the listing member deleted the price (which is their prerogative) and you want to know what the price was, do NOT post in the thread…send the member a PM.

Those who continually stomp or hijack other member's ads will face temporary, and even permanent suspension of their forum privileges.

15. No duplicate or multiple threads in different sections for the same item. Pick one section, the most applicable, and post there. Additional duplicate threads will be deleted.

16. You may not use the signature block function to solicit purchases, trades and/or sales. That is why we have the a thread with your specific WTB, WTS, WTT ad.
You may have up to two lines stating you are looking or searching for a particular rifle/weapon and serial number.
As with individual posts, signature blocks/lines are subject to the same forum rules and will be handled accordingly if they violate any forum rules, policies/procedures or take up too much room of a post.

- Buyers and Sellers should verify each other’s identity before sending money and/or products. If possible, get each other’s phone number and have a quick conversation to confirm the transaction details.
- As a suggestion: sellers should consider using delivery confirmation to avoid conflicts from buyers; saying they never received the products.
- Buyers, get to know the seller a little before you blindly send cash. If something does not seem right; it probably isn't. If something seems too good to be true; it probably is. Contact a moderator or report a thread/post that appears to be a scam.
- Respect fellow members. This section is a great place to support/help out fellow members and occasionally make new friends. Please be respectful to your fellow members. Maybe try selling here to a member instead of eBay, maybe save them a buck or two. If you have any questions, problems or concerns feel free to contact a moderator or admin.
- We do not require members to keep ads, or keep a listing price in the thread. It is your ad, so you are free to delete it at your discretion, as well as remove the asking price if you so desire. If someone is curious about the price for what an item sold, contact the seller via PM…do NOT post in thread.
- Lastly, don't forget the <b>Buyer/Seller Feedback section</b>

Be sure to express a good or bad experience with your buyer or seller, and let others know what to expect. Also be sure to check there for a member if you are concerned BEFORE you buy.

1. All spammers get banned instantly and permanently.
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3. If you cannot follow the rules set forth, your posts may be deleted, removed, or edited by the Moderators.
4. If you repeatedly do not follow the rules set forth, you will be banned from this section or from the CMP Forum for any length of time from 2 days to permanently, at the discretion of the Moderators.

NOTE: These rules can change at any time. Administrators and Moderators have the right to make any decision that fits the website and its users.

The CMP, any of its staff and forum administrators/moderators assume NO liability or responsibility for Marketplace transactions. Members will use at their own risk, and CMP will not be responsible for any disputes or claims between members involving a transaction.
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The opinions and posts on this site do not necessarily reflect those of The Civilian Marksmanship Program.

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Did you know? - Pellet Sizes (Vogel USA)

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  • Did you know? - Pellet Sizes (Vogel USA)

    The following is a write up done by Vogel USA and is a great explanation about how pellets are made and what all the fancy numbers mean.

    Reference: Vogel USA

    "The first thing you need to know is that competition air guns used in the Olympic disciplines are .177 caliber, which is equal to 177th thousandths of an inch. The metric equivalent to .177 inches is 4.50 millimeters, therefore the European caliber designation is 4.5 mm.

    Next, you should know that the smallest quantity of match pellets are typically packaged as 500 pellets and are in containers called tins. When ten tins are packaged together, they are called a sleeve. A sleeve contains 5,000 pellets and weighs a little more than 6 pounds. Five sleeves packaged together are called a case. A case contains 25,000 pellets and weighs about 32 pounds. Case quantities are normally bought by schools, clubs, very serious competitors, or those stocking up early for Y3K.

    So much for packaging. Next, you need to know that these .177 caliber or 4.50 mm match pellets are made in different sizes.

    As a way of refining accuracy, and to most perfectly fit an individual group of pellets to the exact size and characteristics of your gun barrel, pellets are made in different head sizes. Head sizes start at 4.48 mm and continue through 4.49, 4.50, 4.51, and 4.52 mm. These sizes are determined by the various size molds used to create the pellets in the manufacturing process. But, you ask, isn't one .177 barrel the same size as another .177 barrel? No, not really.

    In the barrel manufacturing process, the tolerances are such that the finished size of the lands and grooves of the rifling, will vary enough from one barrel to another that, while one barrel coming off of the assembly line might prefer the undersized pellets of 4.48 mm - the next barrel might be happier with oversized pellets of 4.51 mm.

    In a perfect world, you would discover which head size fits your gun and that would always be the perfect pellet for your gun - but, we all know we don’t live in a perfect world. Nonetheless, a myth has arisen in the shooting world saying that a specific pellet head size is the only information you need to know to obtain maximum accuracy from a particular target airgun. This myth is derived from a misunderstanding of a small piece of paper that comes with every target airgun sold, that paper is called a test target.

    The airgun manufacturers (Anschutz, Walther, Steyr, FWB, Morini, etc.) include a test target with each new airgun showing a very small group shot from that specific airgun. Generally, scribbled beside the group will be some initials denoting the mfg of the pellet (H & N, RWS, JSB, or Vogel) and a head size diameter (4.48, 4.9, 4.50, etc). It is a profound misunderstanding of this test target which causes so much confusion for parents, athletes and coaches.

    Unfortunately, the conclusion of proper head size pellets for this particular airgun is drawn when the new owner opens up his or her prize new airgun and looks at the owner's manual for guidance and sees the head size written on the test target. The owner immediately thinks that it was selected by the factory as the perfect size pellet for use in this airgun, somewhat akin to Moses bringing the 10 commandments off of Mount Sinai. The reality is that head size on a factory test target has about as much relevance to your final decision on what is the most accurate pellet for your airgun as Bugs Bunny making that proverbial left turn in Albuquerque.

    The test target is nothing more than a validation from the factory that this particular airgun is capable of shooting well. The factory IS NOT trying to determine the best pellet for your gun. In fact, as we will see in a moment, they cannot do this. What the gun factories want to do is put a sample of various pellets through their guns to see if they are shooting to their accuracy expectations. The test targets are shot with a group of five pellets. If they shoot the one group of five pellets and they get a great looking group, you can bet the next thing that gun will see is the inside of a packing box, not shooting more five shot groups of pellets.

    Of course they will not always get a great looking group on the first attempt and often will shoot two or three different five shot groups of pellets to assess the accuracy of the gun/barrel combination. From that first two or three groups, they will take the best looking group, scribble down the manufacter and head size on that test target as a verification that it shot well. Then that airgun goes off for final packaging and is shipped to an airgun dealer near you.

    If they shoot the first four groups and none of the groups are as tight as they should be, then they will shoot another sample of four groups possibly on the opposite extreme of the pellet size spectrum. Normally, for air rifles, one or more of these groups will be able to hold an unfired pellet up by skirt, when holding the target horizontally in the air. As soon as they find a good looking group, that target will go out with the gun. If none of these attempts show accuracy, then the gun will go back to have its barrel or regulator checked before coming back to the test range. The point is, shooting test targets are not attempts by the factory at defining what shoots well in their barrel, but only that their barrel does indeed shoot well.

    Now then, if this head size number indicated on your gun’s test target is not the key to the accuracy then what is? How do you know what pellets you should buy? To really get true information requires testing your airgun from solid rest with a variety of head sizes and lot numbers. Lot numbers you say? What are those? Lot numbers are what are used by manufactures to differentiate between various groups of pellets having different production characteristics.

    In firearms ammunition there are a lot more variables that can make-up a lot number change. Anything that is different in the production requires a new lot number. A change from one group of primers to another, a new box of gun powder, a change in brass, a change in the roll of lead wire used to make the bullet, a change in the adjustment of the machine, even a simple tweak will necessitate a new lot number. Often this means that single machine operating in a normal 8 hour work day could produce 5 or more different lot numbers.

    For airgun pellets, there are really only two variables that create a different lot number, a change in the lead wire or a change in the machine adjustment. For us at Vogel USA, if everything goes well and an entire roll of lead wire runs through the machine without any machine tweaking taking place, then a lot will not be any larger than 12 sleeves, or approximately 60,000 pellets. If production is stopped in the middle of a roll of wire and a machine adjustment is made, then that creates a new lot number. If we stop again and make another machine adjustment, then that creates another new lot number. So you can see that its possible that lot number could cover only 2 or 3 sleeves of pellets.

    To determine what a given pellet's lot number is, we normally only have to look at the tins, often they are stamped on little stickers on the bottom of the tin, and they will also be found on the corresponding sleeves and cases. It is important when choosing lots to be tested, that you determine if the supplier has a large enough quantity on hand of each lot number you test to actually supply you with that lot number in the event you choose it as the best shooting lot in your gun. Often, a supplier will have to hold back those lots being tested until you make your final purchase, so they won't sell out of the lot you eventually choose. In fairness to the vendors, you should do your pellet testing as soon as possible upon receiving the sample lots, so as not to tie up his inventory of pellets for weeks on end."

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